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Forum:CW:Suggestions for organizing and summarizing the wiki
When I was first looking through the wiki I was curious about the scope, but I didn't find anything to give me an overview. Some organization can be done with categories (and is in this wiki), but non-category index pages can give more context for the entries. In addition, category pages show what is defined, but non-category pages can (via Red links) also show what isn't defined. Some types of index that could be done for this wiki are below. In each case, everything that can be linked would be linked (this is a wiki). Country index: A alphabetical list of countries followed by a list of all the currencies. The currencies can be listed by name (Australian Pound) and/or abbreviation (AUP). Alternate names can be listed (for example, the Malagasy Republic). These can either link to the main entry in the index, or just to the correct country page. Index of currency names: Australian Pound: Australia Australian Dollar: Australia, Cocos Islands, Tuvalu, etc. Dollar (link to a main page on the history of Dollar): See also Australian Dollar, Singapore Dollar, Hong Kong Dollar, etc. Index of currency codes (AUD, AUP, USD, etc): Similar to above, but just for the codes. If you can type any code into the search box and go to an appropriate page this wouldn't be very useful, but if only a small portion of the codes are defined as pages then this page may be useful. Eventually all ISO 4217 codes would have pages. Most, like MXN and MXP would redirect, but many, like EUR, are cross-country and would have a separate page. Index of denominations: Cent, Penny, Florin, Schilling, Shilling, Ropel, etc., each showing the currencies or countries that have used that denomination. Tables like the Global History of Currencies spreadsheet: The layout of the Currency Histories sheet won't work in the wiki, the width of the table would be much too wide for Wikia's format. This could be addressed by leaving some information off and/or going to a multi-line format for each entry. The advantage of putting it in a wiki over the current spreadsheet is obviously being able to link to everything mentioned in the table. It would be nice to be able to define templates so, for example, the eight lines for Afghanistan could be both in the main table and inside the Afghanistan page. (It would also be nice to be able to list all the GBP lines (all 70) in the GBP page, but that is harder than a simple template per country.) Older Currencies To extend the discussion to older currencies, a standard set of names for the older currencies is needed. For my collection I use the names and codes from the Global History of Currencies. It's nice to have standard developed by someone else. If we use their terminology would be appropriate to ask permission. If we have a discussion and get permission, it might also be useful to ask about using their pages and spreadsheet as a source to populate this wiki and the indices. My view is that the information is factual and therefore not subject to copyright (with the exception of the extension of currency codes, which is original work) but it's better to have a discussion ahead of time, with the results documented (names, dates, statements), to avoid problems later. (For example, see the lawsuit Astrolabe, Inc. v. Olson et al. about the Internet time zone database. In the view of the EFF the lawsuit is bogus, but it still forced a change in management of the database and has already caused many hours of annoyance.) One area of older currencies are the German states. The situation is complicated with several standards over time. The Global History of Currencies defines a few currencies, but it doesn't fully cover the situation. The Schǒn Deutscher Mŭnzkatakog18 has about 50 two letter codes for currencies, but some countries minted coins in up to four of those currencies. I'm still struggling with how to deal with this in my collection. (The denomination index in Schǒn has over thirty entries for Pfennig, One currency has 450 Pfennig in a Reichsthaler, another has 201 3/5 (not kidding) Pfennig in a Reichsthaler. At least the Reichsthaler was a common standard, although it changed over time.) Discussion I'm interested in hearing any thoughts on these suggestions, and other suggestions on showing what this wiki has. Argadi 02:22, January 15, 2012 (UTC) :I like your ideas for the countries, currencies, and denominations indices. As for the index of currency codes, we already have one here. I'm not really sure about the spreadsheets idea, though, and I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at in the Older Currencies section. -- :: There are three disadvantages I see in of the current ISO 4217 layout. First it is split into two sections (as is the source page on Wikipedia) so the listings aren't alphabetical. There are advantages to the current presentation, but also advantages to one list. :: Second, information is not easily available per country. One entry per currency code, and you need to search for country names and compare dates to piece together the order. (And it only goes back a short time in history.) :: Third, the currency codes are not linked. The text names are linked but, for example, for ARS the link for Argentine peso goes to the top of the page, not 80% down the page where the current Peso is discussed. Even in the second table, the text names with links I looked at were linked to the top of the page. (The linking issues can obviously be solved without a new page.) :: The advantage of the spreadsheet is that it gives a summary of the history. The Global History of Currency, for example, has eleven lines for Argentina (and portions thereof) and quickly shows the major currency changes over time, and how the currencies overlap and transition. The current Argentine peso has this information, but it is scattered through the page. :: Also, Argentine peso covers more than the Peso. It covers early coinage, three of the four currencies since 1970 in detail (there is mention of the Austral, but it doesn't cover the coinage and banknotes). To make the title accurate it should either be renamed Argentine Currency (with the addition of the Austral), or have the non-Peso information moved to new Argentine Currency Overview and Argentine Austral pages. :: As far as older currencies, the Argentine peso page talks about currency codes ARF, ARG and ARM which aren't mentioned on ISO 4217 so there isn't a table summarizing the dates (as the GHC spreadsheet does). There are also no currency codes used before ARF so it isn't clear which periods shared a currency with Spain. The GHC uses XESE for the early Spanish Escudo (used by many countries) and XARP for the pre-ARF currency of Argentina. :: (It's interesting to note that Argentine peso and the Wikipedia page it was taken from say ARF started in 1826, but GHC says 1860. I'm inclined to believe GHC as they give more detail about the governmental changes on their Argentina page.) :: For other older currencies, the German currency codes go back to 1873, but German currency standards go back to at least 1350 (and the Chinese standards go back much further). A growing portion of my collection was issued in countries and periods that do not have two letter country codes and ISO 4217 codes but I still want to understand the currency relationships. :: While the additional GHC currency codes help, they don't fully address older currencies. Brunswick-Luneburg-Calenberg-Hannover uses XDRG and then XDCT, but the coins of George II August (also know as George II of England) were issued over the XDRG/XDCT transition with no obvious coinage change matching the currency change. Argadi 10:12, January 15, 2012 (UTC) :::First, I'll give my opinions on your ISO 4217 page layout suggestions. I do agree that the current page does have its disadvantages, and it may be beneficial to combine the tables and link the codes. I am willing to go forward with this suggestion, by possibly making a separate index for said codes. Also, I see your logic with the Argentine peso page and the ARS redirect not leading to the proper location. :::The next idea you mentioned I would also like to implement. An overview of the country would provide the readers a basic understanding of its history, which would be extremely beneficial. :::As for your final suggestion of GHC codes, it would also be good to implement here. I agree that this would help to show the relationships between older currencies, especially during the time of the German States. -- It doesn't seem like we will be able to use the information from the Global History of Currencies. I read the Global Financial Data website Terms Of Use and exchanged e-mail with a customer service representative. The response was clear, use of any information on any page on their web site requires a customer license. It might be possible to go around customer service and find someone with the authority to let us use information, but it would take some effort. Argadi 12:24, January 19, 2012 (UTC) :That is unfortunate, as much of the information that the GHC has on its site would benefit this wiki. I'm sure there is a way to go around customer service, but as of the moment, I am unsure how to do it. --